This interview contains major spoilers for The Boys‘ season five premiere. If you want to run away from them until you see the episode head over to our non-spoiler review of the show’s final season. Otherwise, dive into A-Train’s journey on The Boys season five with us.
The Boys‘ fifth and final season ended with a moment that was shocking yet not totally surprising. Homelander finally caught his former Seven colleague A-Train, leading to his death. It was a farewell that brought Reggie Franklin’s story—which began on the show with him running through Hughie’s girlfriend Robin—full circle. He died as a hero after avoiding an innocent pedestrian while fleeing Homelander. He also died bravely, laughing in the face of the world’s most powerful Supe.
What was it like leaving the show in such an epic way? What was it like filming his memorable goodbye and working on his final episode? We spoke to A-Train himself, Jessie T. Usher, on the eve of The Boys‘ season five premiere.
Nerdist: You’ve been living with this episode for a long time.
Jessie T. Usher: Yeah.
Now that season five of The Boys is finally premiering, does A-Train’s death feel more real?
Usher: Yes. Yes, it does. I’ve been living with this deepest secret for the last two years. I heard about A-Train’s death and how it was going to play out about a year before we got the script. Eric called me as soon as they started workshopping the idea, and I kept it from the cast. They didn’t know. I kept it from all my closest friends. I’m getting threats from my family and friends. They want to know so bad, but I feel like I’ve made it this far. I’m not going to let anything, no cats, out the bag. I’m going to let people live in their heads the way that I have for the last two years with this thing.
I cannot wait to have people finally see what’s going to happen and how it’s going to end for the character. I’ve been biting my tongue for so long.
What was your initial reaction when Eric told you, “Hey, we’re going to start this season off with you (A-Train) dying?”
Usher: I felt with everything that happened with A-Train he had to die. I felt like he had to. It’s the only thing that sort of makes sense with all the shit that he’s done. So when I got the call, my initial reaction was like, “Okay. It’s happening.”
Everyone wants to die by Eric’s pen. That’s the thing when you start working on an Eric Kripke show. “How are you going to die? Do you get to die?” So I was like, “Okay. I finally get my death from Eric.” And then he told me how it was going to play out and the symbolism that’s going to happen in the full circle moment that A-Train’s going to have.
Honestly, tears in my eyes. I can’t thank him enough for taking the time to have this character make these real changes and have these real moments that play out on screen. That he’s been able to process and express throughout the course of the show. It’s just not often you get a chance to play a character that makes a full turn. It’s rare. Super, super rare.
This character, who had a less significant role in the comics, from the beginning of the series, I just felt like they really, really cared about him. And this ending, going out the way that A-Train goes out, it’s such a strong ending and such a strong moment for him. It’s a really big thing. It just feels massive, and I couldn’t be more grateful. I love it.
In 2022, I asked you what you thought would be the fairest ending for A-Train and what you personally hoped would happen to him. You thought losing everything and having to live with that was fair. But personally, you said, and I quote, “I want to die in an epic way; I want something legendary to happen. I don’t know, some slow-motion scenes, something crazy that only we can do on this show. I want to see something cool. That’s all.”
Usher: Woooow.
Considering you got what you personally wanted and more, did you have any input into this ending and A-Train’s death?
Usher: No, no. I trusted Eric 100%. He gave me the idea, and I purposefully didn’t want to put anything in his mind. I just feel like whatever it is that I’m thinking, he’s thought about it a hundred times over. His ideas are always greater than mine. I praise his pen. I think he’s incredible. So no, he told me from the jump that A-Train’s going to run; it’s going to be Homelander that’s going to do it. And we’re not going to bend or break the rules. [A-Train] is actually still going to be the fastest man. We’ll see him actually losing Homelander, so we’ll know if it weren’t for [A-Train] making the decision not to hit the girl, he actually would have gotten away.
That to me was epic. That’s all I can really ask for. Because I want this character to stay who he is and to be as legendary as we built him up to be. And for the fans and stuff, they’re always going to ask, “Oh, is he that fast? Is Homelander faster?” It’s like, no, we can finally answer that question. A-Train is faster. But he’s also wiser now, and that brought him to his end.
But it was epic, man. I had no notes. I loved what they wrote. And I loved the moments leading up to that final moment. I felt like we finally just get some real genuine honesty out of him. It just felt like I was playing a different character. I’m not in the suit and I’m being honest. I was like, “What the hell is this? Is this even A-Train?” It’s a different person altogether.
I don’t want to succumb to recency bias or overlook all of the great work you’ve done on The Boys before, but I think it’s fair to say that your last scene is as good as any performance you’ve given on the show.
Usher: Wow. Thank you.
How did you prep for it?
Usher: This is interesting because my preparation is almost exactly the same for everything I do. The process is two days before I start working on the material, I get comfortable with the words. Then I start digging into what they all mean and the emotion that goes behind everything. I forget the words and only focus on the emotion. But with this scene, I felt like I learned the words, and then I completely let it go. This was the only time that I really wanted to discover how I felt about what I was saying as I was saying it. And it changed so many times. Every time me and Antony (Starr) had a different take. I wish that we could watch back all of those outtakes because there are a hundred different versions of that scene.
There are some really emotional ones, there are some quiet ones, there are some louder, some angrier ones. There are a lot of sad ones. And some where I came to tears a few times.
With that laugh, I didn’t know I was going to enjoy that moment that much. I didn’t. And when I felt it, that’s when I went, “Oh, that’s it. That’s the moment that feels right.” And Antony sort of pushed me in that direction too, because we were leaning towards it a little bit. Then he goes, “To be honest with you, Jessie, I think A-Train wins in this moment.” And I go, “Yeah, I think he wins too.”
Antony said, “Yeah, I think he wins, and that is going to do more to Homelander than trying to be mean to him or whatever. I think if you take the win here, I think it’ll sit with me more. I think that’s the bigger, stronger choice.”
And I remember getting off the ground for that take, and I looked up at him, and I just started laughing. I just busted out laughing. And it didn’t feel right in that moment, but the joy that [A-Train] got from finally not being on the run and not being afraid anymore was what we knew we were going to live with. So it was really a crazy discovery process. We were throwing out so many different things, trying everything, seeing what sticks, and then just a moment of contentment was the one that really felt the truest and the purest. So that’s how we got there.
You talked about it feels in that moment for A-Train, who is realizing this guy’s a loser. But how did you personally feel while filming that, knowing this was the end for this character?
Usher: Oh man, too many emotions to even start. You feel everything in those moments, even though you know what’s going to happen. I’ve read the script, I’ve rehearsed these scenes. Being there, there was a crazy moment of peace that came over me. It was 4:00 a.m. in the winter in Toronto, by the way. So I was laying on the ground and it was like a sheet of ice on the ground. I was just laying there freezing my ass off. But I just had this breath, where I felt relieved that we’ve built this thing up and we cared about this thing for so long, and now we’re presenting this character’s end in this way. And it just felt like … I don’t know, man. I’m feeling it now. Just being like, “Damn, I really did love playing this character.”
I really did. In that moment, that’s what you feel. You feel the love that you’ve grown to have with these characters. You really do realize that you actually are connected to them in a way that I can’t even begin to explain.
I used to always hear actors saying they had a hard time letting go of a character or getting out of a character. And I never really felt that way. I always felt like the moment they yelled “cut,” I’m out. It doesn’t take long to get out of the character. But with A-Train, when I finished that scene, and I took my seat-back….because I always take my little seat-back from every show that I’ve worked on. I have them all, and I took it, and I put it in my room, and I didn’t put it with the rest of them for about four months.
It was very unconscious. But one day I walked in, and I said, “Am I still having a hard time letting go of this character?” I really was, though. I had to sit down with myself and say, “Okay, it’s fine. We’ve done it. This is what we dreamed to do with the character from the very beginning. We were promised five seasons. We were blessed to be able to make it to five, and the characters just had such real, impactful turning points and decisions.” And I put so much into him, and I felt like this was the moment that I got all of those emotions back all at one time. But it was really crazy to feel. It was bananas.
This episode gave you one last scene with The Deep, whom I think A-Train has been most connected with on the show. You and Chace Crawford had a lot of great moments together. What was it like shooting that last scene together?
Usher: Oh, man. I was just happy to be on screen with him again. (laughing) I love working with Chace. He’s so funny. He’s one of my favorite characters because I don’t know how he’s able to find comedy in the stuff that he does. But every moment on screen with him, I genuinely do enjoy like a fan, just sort of watching him do his thing.
But these characters have a lot of history together, The Deep and A-Train. And they’ve been sort of side-by-side in the same world, in the same room, a lot. Most of the time they’ve always just been wearing the same mask. They’ve been lying to each other about everything. They’ve been lying about how they feel about each other or how they feel about the world that they live in. And this was the first time that we were able to just have a quiet, honest moment.
I was happy that it happened with him because of that reason. We see these two characters together so often, and it’s never a genuine moment. But this was a genuine moment that I hope stays with The Deep as he continues on throughout the course of the show. Where it’s like, “It’s okay, man. We can say to each other that we’re scared of Homelander, bro.”
I love that I was able to have that moment with him. That was a beat I didn’t expect to have in the show, but I’m grateful we were able to have that moment. And I’m grateful that A-Train was able to say what he said to that person. It was the only way that felt right.
What did you learn about yourself, both as an actor and a person from working on a show this good for this long?
Usher: Oh my goodness. That I can work 20 hours, no problem if I love what I’m doing. (laughs) As an actor, this show really does put you through it. It’s a challenging show to work on. It’s very technical. You have to be on an exact mark. With A-Train, it’s extremely technical because of the visual effects aspect. But I was able to put together a lot of pieces. You can’t learn that in acting class. You just really can’t. There’s no workshop out there that could have taught me how to be A-Train other than just playing him. It opened my eyes. It made me realize that, “Okay, if I need to juggle a hundred things, I feel like I can do it.”
My confidence as an actor went up a lot from playing this character. We’ve had to find some real genuine, quiet moments in the middle of exploding a lot of stuff. There was one moment in particular where earlier in the show A-Train Kills Popclaw-
A hundred years ago.
Usher: A hundred years ago, it feels like. But that was my first time having a really emotional moment. And in that moment, we had to do so many different technical things with the speed and the syringes and stuff like that. I literally told my parents, “I didn’t even know I could stay in that state for that long and do it again and again and again.”
This is like a boot camp for actors being on this show, because everyone’s really bringing their A-game. Every single person who’s ever stepped a toe on The Boys has brought their absolute A-game, and you have to do that. And as a person and as an actor, I realized we should be doing that for everything that we do. Every line that I deliver, I should be trying to do my absolute best as often as I can, if I can.
If I can go that 16th hour, I’ll go that 16th hour. If I can play around with this line and give you 40 different reads on it, then I feel like I can do it. So why wouldn’t I? You know what I mean? I just felt like I learned a lot about myself, in what I was able to do and what I was willing to do by playing this character.
I’m sorry you had to live with this for two years. I had to live with it for one week. I was the only one on staff for one week who saw the episode, and I was like, “Please! Somebody watch this. I have to talk about it. I have to talk about it.”
Usher: (laughing) Yeah. I can’t wait to talk about it, man. I’m going to be talking my lips off, I’m sure, for the rest of the month.
Mikey Walsh is a staff writer at Nerdist. He wants you to know that Jessie T. Usher still has one of the best laughs in the world. You can follow him on Bluesky at @burgermike. And also anywhere someone is ranking the Targaryen kings.