The Lord of the Rings: The War of the Rohirrim brought The Lord of the Rings back to theaters after almost a decade. And it was fitting ride back onto the big screen. Philippa Boyens, who has had an extensive hand in shaping the cinematic world of The Lord of the Rings, alongside collaborates Fran Walsh and Peter Jackson, was an incredibly hand’s on executive producer of this movie. Nerdist had the chance to speak to Boyens about all things The War of the Rohirrim, but also about the future of The Lord of the Rings movies and adventures.
You can check out our full interview with Philippa Boyens below.
You got to name a Tolkien character in The Lord of the Rings: The War of the Rohirrim; what was the process of settling on the name, Hèra?
Philppa Boyens: That was actually Fran Walsh. I’ve got to give her credit, but I mean, I was the one I knew that it needed to be an “H” because we have Helm, Hama, Haleth, and then for quite a while, I have to say, for fair few weeks, it was like Helga, Hilda, Hahhh. And I was out in the garden actually, because we are neighbors, Fran and I, we were out with the dogs, and I was saying, “We just can’t find her.” And she looked at me, and she said, “What about Hèra?” And she said, “After our Viking,” and I knew what she meant immediately. Our Viking is Hera Hilma, who is a brilliant Icelandic actress that we got to work with on Mortal Engines. And as soon as she said that, it was just like, “Of course, that name.” It’s such a beautiful name. So yeah, that’s how she became Hèra.
Hèra is a young woman rising from namelessness to carrying her own Tolkien tale. What was really important for you to feature in that character?
Boyens: We wanted her to feel real, strangely enough. I mean, which is kind of a weird thing to say because she’s an animated character. She’s in a fantasy world, but Kenji Kamiyama, I don’t know, he’s some kind of magician. Somehow he manages to make those characters feel real. I also have to give credit to Gaia Wise, who voices her. We worked with Gaia over a span of three years, and genuinely there’s her DNA in that character. I can tell you a quick little story. She turned up to record one day, we were recording in London. I think we’d already laid down the first voice tracks, and then some animation had started coming through. And we’d come back to London, and now she was getting to revoice, and we had some new lines, et cetera, to picture. But she turned up, and she’d been knocked off her bike, and she had blood coming down her leg. And I was like a mother hen, immediately. And she was like, “No, no, it’s fine. It’s fine. Let’s go, let’s go.” And I was like, “Oh my God, that’s Hèra.”
Did you learn any interesting facts about Rohan that you hadn’t known before while you were creating this movie?
Boyens: That’s an interesting question. I think I had to relearn some facts, for sure. Yes, yes, I did actually. Actually, if you go back far enough, you find out who the first Haleth was. And the very first Haleth was not a man, it was a woman.
Actually, that story, if you have a look at that particular character, is really, really interesting. Sort of an ancestor, but not really an ancestor, if you know what I mean. Yeah, interesting character. But yeah, I did learn that.
And what was your favorite edition that you made to the lore of Rohan through The Lord of the Rings: The War of the Rohirrim?
Boyens: I think, well, Hèra, I mean, she’s not really an addition because she does exist. She is an unnamed character in that story. I kind of have to admit, I have a soft spot for two particular orcs who creep down from the White Mountains.
In the book, we know from what Professor Tolkien wrote that many of the Dunlendings were fearful of Helm and the way he would fall upon them in the night. And that you’d hear the sound of the horn in the deep, and the superstition arose that he wasn’t human anymore, that he was a wraith. And even that he was eating the bodies. And what I loved about that, was that I immediately thought, “Well, he is not eating the bodies, so who is eating the bodies?” And so the orcs.
Hèra, a few times in the movie, proclaims sentiments like “I am a bride to no man.” I know that kind of echos of Éowyn’s “I am no man,” but to me, pronouncements like that have a kind of elemental queerness to them. Was there ever any discussion or thought of that with Hera
Boyens: In terms of her not wanting to marry him, that sort of thing? Yeah. Where does her heart lie?
Yes!
Boyens: No, honestly, legitimately, no. And I think this is the interesting thing in terms of that, that is the beauty of what you can do with Professor Tolkien because I think there’s an accessibility to these characters that you can have, and you can try and make them as real as possible. But I can tell you we did go and look back on some histories, medieval histories, to sort of make sure she was feeling authentic. And there are many times you can find women who refuse to marry. They did not want to marry. And some of them paid a price for that choice. There is actually quite a surprising number of historical women characters who said, “No, I’m not marrying any man.” It’s interesting, an interesting perspective. And I would say to that, I would say, “Why not?” Maybe! But also, we can never know.
Unless we see Hèra again.
Boyens: Yes, exactly. Exactly. I do love that relationship between the two women, though. Because Olwyn’s so not motherly. She’s so brilliantly done by Lorraine Ashbourne. She loves this child who is not her own, but there’s not much that’s motherly about it.
They’re more kindred, almost.
Boyens: Yeah. The link between the two of them is that lineage, that Dhieldmaiden lineage.
Many villains in The Lord of the Rings‘ world are kind of supernatural creatures of evil, but Wulf is a human bad guy. How do you feel having a human villain is different from a supernatural one?
Boyens: It was actually really, really good. I have to say it was really enjoyable. Even Denathor has been influenced supernaturally by the Palantír and Sauron. So yeah, this is purely driven by human emotions, and he is a fantastic character. He’s one of my favorite characters.
And what makes him one of my favorite characters, is this. And this was us expanding upon what was in the book, which is that in the beginning, he’s not without cause. If you imagine that Rohirrim are governed by consent, it means that Helm Hammerhands’s right to rule is not not divine. It’s through his people, which actually puts a bit of tension under the line of Helm.
Kamiyama-san chose to create Haleth as this incredibly powerful young warrior. So you would feel like and assume that the line of Helm is in good hands. It’s fully established. And it’s interesting that Helm himself, and I know this intrigued, Brian Cox, Helm himself believes that his duty to his daughter is to protect her but it is in his sons that his line resides. And his journey to understanding and seeing her in a different way is really interesting, I think.
But yeah, I think she’s a character that allows us to experience this conflict in a completely different way. And so what we thought would be interesting is if we’re seeing things through the eyes of Hèra, how would she feel it was her childhood friend who came to her and put her in that position? I love that. I mean, it’s awkward, but it’s great for storytelling.
I love the scene between the two of them and the tower.
Then, of course, there was some fun The Lord of the Rings references. Did you always know you wanted to include Saruman? And when did you kind of know you would add in Christopher Lee’s voice?
Boyens: That happened fairly early on. We weren’t actually writing the script, we were literally structuring the story. I had thought, okay, we wanted this to be a standalone story, but we also wanted on the periphery of it, we wanted the world of the live-action films to be there. To have those echoes in there.
And I was thinking, well, which character would legitimately be able to turn up in this story? Obviously, Gandalf potentially could have, but if you actually look at the appendices, it’s Saruman. This is around this time that he enters Orthanc, and it is around this time that he makes his connection with Fréaláf Hildeson. So yeah, I thought that he was the right person.
So then I went to Peter Jackson. Because Peter, he had a great affection for Christopher Lee. They had a lovely relationship right to the end. And I said to him, “What do you think?” And he smiled, and I think he said, “Yeah, I think Christopher would want to be in the film,” which I thought was a lovely way to put it. And so then we reached out to Lady Lee, who is now sadly no longer with us. But she said exactly the same thing. She said, “Oh yes, he would want to be in the film.” And then what we needed to do was to make sure we were using his voice. Because I think the studio suggested, “Do you want to find a voice alike?” And I think they may even have auditioned a few actors, but you could undoubtedly find someone who could “do” Christopher Lee’s voice, but not really. No one else can do that.
We know The Lord of the Rings: The Hunt for Gollum is coming, and maybe potentially some other things. Is there anything you can tease about the expansion of the world after The War of the Rohirrim?
Boyens: We are actually, as I speak to you, we’re in the midst of writing The Hunt for Gollum. It’s actually been a lot of fun. It’s really interesting. It’s in bits and pieces at the moment, just so you know. It’s spread out literally over my dining table. But it’s interesting how much story is left to be told, which is number one. And two, when you excavate some of those moments, when you go into them, because it’s a few lines that Professor Tolkien provides us with, or a few clues that he provides us with in the text. And when you go into them, it’s like, we know Strider captures Gollum in the Dead Marshes. How does he pick up his scent? How does he find his trail, how does it happen? Do you know? I don’t know at the moment.
Is there a sort of just personal, like a white whale Tolkien story that if you could just tell anything tomorrow that you would want to tell?
Boyens: Yes, yes, yes, there is. It has, my heart always has. I think the story of Beren and Lúthien is just magnificent. It is like the precursor of so much that comes after. But listen, I completely understand and respect the estate, and I think it may end up being other minds who may have to tell that story. And if they do, I’ll be the first in line to see it.
And just as a hardcore fan of the elves, I have to ask, would you ever imagine an elf movie? I would love to see one.
Boyens: Well, I knew why we swapped out Glorfindel for our women and why we needed to do that because he would’ve just appeared and kind of gone nowhere in the storytelling. But he’s an interesting character.
Oh yes, yes. Celebrían, her story. That would be an interesting story because she’s kind of a mystery; exactly what happened there, right?
The Lord of the Rings: The War of the Rohirrim releases in theaters on December 13.
