James Bonding James Bonding #005: GOLDFINGER with Alie and Georgia Posted by Katie Levine on October 3, 2013 Share: Twitter Facebook Google+ Reddit Email Alie and Georgia come on the podcast to talk about the controversy they found in Goldfinger! Follow @JamesBondingPOD, @MattMira, and @MattGourley on Twitter! 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It must be so hard for you that your free James Bond podcast featured challenging ideas and guests that weren’t interested in just heaping praise onto an extremely dated and problematic film franchise. No one’s saying you’re not allowed to like Bond because of the sexism. But the sexism is there and it’s absolutely worth discussing. The problem is that nerds like you guys can’t handle a point of view that’s not your own. You can watch a movie like this and the sexism just rolls off your back because it doesn’t affect you and you don’t give a shit. But not everyone has the same perspective as you. Two women who have never seen a Bond movie before are obviously going to have a lot to say about the misogyny. I mean, seriously, did you people not expect them to ever say anything negative about how fucking sexist and homophobic these movies are? Pull your heads out of your asses and grow up. This is the world we live in. JW Stillwater says: March 12, 2015 at 1:49 pm And this is coming from someone who grew up with these movies and has a lot of fondness for them, by the way. It’s possible to understand that a movie you love is problematic and still love it. The fact that there are people who love these movies without examining any of their flaws just blows my mind. If you want to just pretend the sexism in these movies doesn’t exist or whatever, fine, but don’t act like these two women who were invited to have an open discussion about this movie are terrible people just because they didn’t want to. And by the way, major LOLs at everyone accusing the Matts of “kowtowing” and “white knighting” in this episode. From the very beginning they say that they weren’t really into the movie. The “eeeevil feminazis” didn’t bully them into saying that. And they were even HARDER on Thunderball, an episode featuring a MALE guest. Not everything is some SJW conspiracy you fucking losers. JW Stillwater says: March 12, 2015 at 1:54 pm God I hate Men’s Rights Activism and nerd culture. A bunch of toxic garbage that ruins everything. Learn to think critically about the art you consume. Learn to recognize problems in things you love. Learn to see other perspectives on things without feeling personally insulted. In general, stop getting personally insulted when someone dislikes something that you like. It’s not the end of the world. JW Stillwater says: March 12, 2015 at 2:02 pm Like holy shit, a startling percentage of the people commenting here seem to sincerely believe that the Matt’s are LYING about their opinion on this movie to impress two women. Like, the idea that the Matts might actually agree with some of what Alie and Georgia are saying didn’t even OCCUR to you. If that’s not delusion, I don’t know what is. OK I’m done. Jane says: February 12, 2015 at 8:07 pm I’m a little late to this party and have been binging on Bond and the listening to the podcast. It’s great and I love it, but MAN what a shift in tone on this movie. It’s hard to watch two guys who love the movie get stomped all over. And don’t get me wrong, this movie was SUPER rape-y, like, way worse the the first two bond movies. He full on rapes Pussy Galore, slaps Dinks ass, destroys a womans car, etc. There’s lots of comedy there to talk about. But listening to them was like listening to amateur MST3k or Benson Interuption. Like, we get it, the GPS is, like, from the 60s. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA soooooo funnnyyyyyy! Maybe comedy isn’t their thing. Bring back Emily and do this episode right, I’d love to hear her opinion on this. Margin says: February 9, 2015 at 9:10 am An actual discussion about the misogyny in Bond movies would be interesting. Just pointing out the obvious misogyny in this movie and despising it isn’t interesting. Also a long discussion about alcoholic drinks is not interesting. Goldfinger is considered a classic and I was looking forward to discussion of how Bond does so little in it, if its deserving of its stature, and how it really set the template for Bond movies. Alie and Georgie were just unable to engage with the movie and the Matts couldn’t figure out how to get any kind of discussion going. Just too little said about the actual movie that was supposed to be discussed. Disappointing. Sisko says: January 16, 2015 at 11:49 pm Sorry had to stop after 20min. Way too negative. Fargles says: January 14, 2015 at 7:05 pm This episode is where the podcast jumped the shark. The mindless womyn sniping constantly and whining about sexism like a first semester frothing-at-the-mouth women’s studies student was a disgrace. Completely uninformed and just angry. I don’t think either spoke a sentence without the word “like” at least twice. Yes, it’s sexist by today’s standards. We get it. However, there’s more to life than seeking out reasons to be offended and then screeching about it. Please make these podcasts about the films, not about attention seeking princesses who can’t cope with anything different than their sheltered experiences. To put it in words Alie and Georgia would appreciate: “Like, this needs to like be about the topic of the podcast, not like irrelevant like ramblings from irrelevant, like angry little girls.” Fargles says: January 14, 2015 at 7:03 pm This episode is where the podcast jumped the shark. The mindless womyn sniping constantly and whining about sexism like a first semester frothing-at-the-mouth women’s studies student was a disgrace. Completely uninformed and just angry. I don’t think either spoke a sentence without the word “like” at least twice. Yes, it’s sexist by today’s standards. We get it. However, there’s more to life than seeking out reasons to be offended and then screeching about it. Please make these podcasts about the films, not about attention seeking princesses who can’t cope with anything different than their sheltered experiences. To put it in words Alie and Georgia would appreciate: “Like, this needs to like be about the topic of the podcast, not like irrelevant like ramblings from irrelevant, like angry little girls.” Jim says: January 10, 2015 at 7:25 pm Jesus Christ this is a terrible episode. Beyond the obnoxious feminist complaining about the movie, their negative and dismissive attitude cause the Matt’s to just kowtow and spend most of the podcast apologizing. Stand up for yourselves! This is pretty much THE quintessential James Bond flick. When people think of James Bond, they think of the James Bond they grew up with (the one running around when they were kids), the most recent one, and this goddamn movie. And then they spend the rest of the podcast talking about random shit like pintrest and girly drinks. Like they don’t talk at ALL about Goldfinger, Oddjob, etc. Just snotty and dismissive shitting all over James Bond Adam says: January 10, 2015 at 9:29 am I like this podcast because it feels like I get to hang out with friends who are James Bond fans like me. This episode felt like I was fifth-wheel on a super awkward highschool double date where the cool girls weren’t in to the guys REALLY want to get laid. I agree that different points of view are great, but respect that you’re on a poscast geared to people who like this thing and don’t sit there for an hour shitting on it; you missed the point. If I wanted to hear this kind of commentary I’d talk to any girlfriend I’ve tried to watch bond with. Ray says: January 7, 2015 at 2:06 pm Ugh, obnoxious Bond haters make for the worst guests. Tuffy says: January 7, 2015 at 6:31 am I love this ep! What fun to hear these ladies’ acerbic take. It was great to hear two modern women call out the sexism. Bond movies have great qualities but that doesn’t make them holy artifacts above all criticism. jeff says: November 14, 2014 at 11:23 am Sorry guys but this is kind of a waste of an episode. JesseSBlack says: November 13, 2014 at 3:34 am I just found this podcast, and have listened all the way up to this episode. But this episode….Wow. I lost it when Alie (or Georgia, I had a hard time telling their voices apart) decided to slam Matt for saying that he thought Barbra Brocolli was “a looker”. I get her argument: that it is a shitty, myopic perspective when a world-acclaimed producer is simply described by her looks, the one trait to which she was ascribed through no effort of her own. I understand how this can be dis-empowering. BUT The vitriol with which she dispatched him was so over the top and uncalled for, especially after realising that she hadn’t even listened to the previous podcast where Matt clearly admitted his crush, even obsession, with Barbra. And the tone in her voice made me cringe so hard. She sounded so high and mighty. I had to simply stop listening. I really think she misdirected her genuine complaints at the hosts of the show, and because of this the whole episode suffered. It would have been so interesting to hear someone actually give a considered, academic female perspective on 1960s James Bond vs Today. Instead we got angry bitterness. AlieAndGeorgiaLoveBond says: November 6, 2014 at 12:30 pm I just listened to this podcast a year late. Love the other episodes that I’ve heard so far but this one hurt. Like you guys I’ve always had fond memories of watching these movies. I love the novels as well. My parents, my brothers, my wife are all feminists and we always seemed to find a way to laugh at these. It sucked to hear your guests just crush anyone who enjoyed this film, or any Bond film. I wish you guys would revisit this one with your guest from the Casino Royale episode. Fuuuck says: October 25, 2014 at 11:12 am God, I’m relistening to these while watching the movies, and this is just intolerable. It’s totally bullshit to say that complaining about this episode is misogyny apologism; Emily had a totally reasonable and entertaining way of talking about sexism just an episode earlier. The real sexism here is pretending that there’s only one possible point of view on sexism, and doing it OVER the voice of another more moderate woman. It’s not just their comments on misogyny; it’s everything. The fact that they’re commenting on misogyny is making it somehow morally wrong to comment on their general awfulness. Allie and Georgia demonstrate a completely idiotic perception of the divide between men and women, informed entirely by bullshit superficial LA party culture. Fuck ’em. Meee says: October 26, 2014 at 4:50 pm And now I’m remembering the whole Thunderball reprimand thing… Honestly I think most of the negativity was BETWEEN posters, each other, who are all kind of on the same level of shitting-on-ism. It’s really not a big deal to go “sorry, but fuck this” in your comments; you guys do the same to various media offhandedly while talking about them on podcasts, and this is how commenters do that. You guys just gotta separate the intensity that comes from defending yourself to another human being vs. the actual unprovoked review of the episode. That said, it didn’t have to be a “family meeting,” but could have just been, yunno, “Hey, a lot of people didn’t like it, and a handful are at their usual level of inhumanity… moving on.” Trying to tell people not to be awful seems hilariously futile. onshay says: October 23, 2014 at 8:59 am Sorry I’m late jumping in here – I just came across the podcast (thanks Doug Loves Movies). I’d echo a lot of what’s been said. It’s cool to not like a film you’re focusing on talking about and I completely get being taken aback by a lot of the scenes in Goldfinger but this was definitely a conversation that should not have aired. I have a super hard time taking the guest’s comments seriously when they can barely even describe the film – admitting, multiple times, that they even stopped paying attention to it while watching. They won’t allow any kind of interesting conversation because they’re more keen on dismissing the film outright. Also, I really, really have to point out that your comparison to Mad Men was completely inapt – sure, the show takes place in a similar period but it’s completely through a contemporary lens. Goldfinger is 100% of it’s era – as most Bond films are. I’m completely down for tearing this film to pieces if the arguments for doing that are coherent and relevant. I felt that the guests on this episode were neither. Also, the conversation was completely chaotic – jumping randomly all over the film. I’ve loved listening to this point and hope this is the low for the series. Ryan says: August 14, 2014 at 3:34 pm I read a comment that I agree with, this particular podcast would have been a great side discussion of the Bond culture and the quite obvious sexism/misogyny of the films (particularly early on). The problem is that you guys didn’t delve deeply into the film because you were steered off course so often by this side discussion. I’d love to hear you guys revisit Goldfinger and give it the treatment it deserves as such a landmark film (not only in the series, but in cinema itself). Critique, sure! Critique away (agree 100% on the horrid terrycloth onesie). But talk about the actual film and get into the nitty gritty some more! james says: August 5, 2014 at 5:07 pm i want to like this, but you continuously show that you haven’t read the books or don’t remember them. Read the books, in order and you’ll have a much more informed opinion on the movies. Jono says: July 20, 2014 at 9:25 am Goddammit comments-section misogynists. Now, without having listened to it yet, I feel obligated to like this episode just because you don’t. Jono says: July 20, 2014 at 9:31 am Fortunately, five minutes in, I love it! I can enjoy James Bond movies and also recognize that, especially in the early films, he is an alcoholic psychopathic murderer! Jono says: July 20, 2014 at 11:02 am Update: How do you talk about mint juleps for this long without mentioning that they suck? David says: July 9, 2014 at 6:13 am I know I’m late to the game on this one, but I want to point out that this is probably my FAVORITE episode of James Bonding, and, as an avid re-listener, one of my most visited along with the Die Another Day ep. I’ll admit to being a huge fan of Alie and Georgia in general, which is clearly not the case of many of these other commenters, but I genuinely thing that anyone not blinded by fanboy love for this movie (which I’ve never understood– it’s not even the best Connery, let alone the best Bond film) and bubbling with misogyny can see that this is one of the FUNNIEST episodes of this podcast. It may not have been the most technical in terms of dissecting the movie, but the podcast is just as much an exercise in comedy as it is in Bond appreciation, and that was where it really succeeded for me. Almost as funny (and unsurprising) is the adolescent whining of the quintessential never-touched-a-girl, live-in-their-parents-basement commenters on this thread. Fuuuck says: October 25, 2014 at 11:28 pm But not near as funny and unsurprising as the guy who comes in supporting feminism by reinforcing a baseline of judgment for men based entirely on their sexual experience and viability as patriarchal breadwinners, thus perpetuating the very culture decried by those women claims to support. You wanna play that game, you gotta buy the bullshit of the whooole culture you’re siding with… yodez says: May 28, 2014 at 10:06 am I found the guests to be entertaining but also annoying. You really need to suspend your disbelief and if you can’t do that how do you enjoy anything? David Dedrick says: May 13, 2014 at 5:49 pm This is my favourite episode so far! Yackle says: April 25, 2014 at 5:23 am I know this is an “old” podcast, but I am just now catching up and listening through. I am a woman and a feminist from birth, born on International Women’s Day in what was declared at the time by Gloria Steinem to be “The Year of the Woman”. I have many fond memories of watching James Bond films with my father (and spaghetti westerns) from a very young age, and seeing Octopussy in a theatre. My mother is NOT someone who was gagged and tied in a closet (as was asserted by your guests if someone had a father who watched these films) and would take me to ERA demonstrations and was a very active member of NOW even when, on Sunday nights, we would watch James Bond films when possible on television (it was the 1970’s and 1980’s). I see the films for what they were–a fantasy filled with cool gadgets, a World’s Fair-like display of extravagant cars, wines, foods, and travel destinations, and very far-fetched super-villains and contrived methods for gaining power and Bond keeping them at bay. I had to turn podcast off because of how offended I was by the depictions of my life and the life of my parents made by your guests who went into this project with their minds made up about what they were going to see within the first 25 seconds (“I hate James Bond”) and then being distracted and pretty much avoiding what was being asked of them. I love these films, not because I think that James Bond is the epitome of masculinity and I wish in my heart of hearts I was a Bond Girl even though it would mean death by the end of the film, but because they are such a fun memory to share with my family and friends, the music is (usually) wonderful, the stories are entertaining (not deep or insightful with some deep meaning which I expect to change my life, but entertaining), and each one is a small time-capsule of the time in which it was written (such as the books focusing so much on “exotic” foods when England was still in post WWII rationing). They are escapism–not how real people do or should live. My parents also made sure I read the Bible and was familiar with the religious books and practices of the main religions which surrounded us, but I lived in an Atheist household; they wanted me to understand that something can be appreciated for its entertainment value and meaning at that point in history (I read a lot of history too to explain the world in which those religious texts were written) and to learn about something before judging it. Oh, I am still a devout atheist, but aware of why and also aware of what others believe. Reading religious texts didn’t convert me just as playing video games doesn’t make me a serial killer, and appreciating James Bond films for what they are doesn’t make me no longer be a feminist. The display of willful ignorance and the insults spewed out by your guests, unknowingly, about people who watch these films made me have to remind myself of what feminism really is about–the ability to make choices not constrained by one’s gender, either male or female. So I made my choice to stop listening to this episode after 15 minutes and continue on to the next one. Thanks! A.J. Valliant says: April 6, 2014 at 10:14 am I have no issue with them having an issue with the misogyny of the movie, but to express that issue at the expense of every other aspect is a disservice to the broader discussion. It’s like discussing Rambo and continually haranguing the host over it’s excessive violence…once the obvious point has been made tediously hammering it over and over becomes a dreary begging of the question. I can deal with shrill and strident, but shrill, strident, and boring is a deal breaker. I’m sure they are lovely people outside of this context, but they sucked all the life and joy out of this one. David Miller says: March 6, 2014 at 7:48 am I only watched these old Bond films for the first time last year and rolled eyes at many scenes that today could be interpreted as rape. With all movies I take to the wiki page and those moments are referred to as “seducing,” so maybe it’s worth recognizing the 1960s were a different, more ignorant time at the dawn of the sexual revolution. The only real criticism I have is that the drink talk was more excruciating then the underwater scenes in Thunderball, at one point I fast forwarded 10 minutes and it was still talk about drinks. Dave says: February 24, 2014 at 7:25 am This was awful, turned it off after 5 minutes because, I wanted to hear about the movie not 2 idiots who never saw a Bond movie before. Darrin says: February 16, 2014 at 4:57 pm I quit listening after the complaint that Bond did not get therapy after finding Jill dead. To make that comment shows no interest in discussing not only Bond films, but any action film. It is certainly a valid opinion to hate action films, but for purposes of this podcast it is not a useful opinion. Please have guests who will at least try to further the discussion. Clayton Courtney says: February 13, 2014 at 3:42 pm I really enjoy the “James Bonding” pod casts, I can listen to them multiple times because they are informative and down right funny. One that I will never listen to again is the “Goldfinger” episode. Alie and Georgia’s attitude ruined the episode. It is not that I do not think the movie is misogynistic, in fact it is, but that is one aspect of the film. It seemed, to me, that the women could not see past this in any way. Even if they might have liked a part they would not admit it as if they were afraid it may somehow give validity to how this movie treated women. Hearing the same thing for 90 minutes spoken with such anger behind it is not entertaining. Their attitude made me want to stay away from anything they are involved in. If they showed a quantum of interest in the other aspects of the movie perhaps I could listen to it again but they could not. One of them did not even watch the entire movie, that is disrespectful to the Matts as well as the fans of the podcast. Stubris says: February 13, 2014 at 6:05 am Jesus wept. “It’s like totally fucking..like..fucking..like, like fucking really like fucking offensive to women”…What a humourless pair. Kudos to the hosts for showing superhuman restraint..should’ve defended the fantasy element more though. Tom S says: January 7, 2014 at 1:52 pm This episode is awesome, suck it nerds John48221 says: January 3, 2014 at 7:45 am Well this is what happens when you fall behind a podcast! I finally listened to this podcast and it was not good. I am not going to personally attack the guests because they were The Matts guests. But I can’t tiptoe around the fact that it was hard to listen to. Would I like to see a redo? Yes. But I don’t think the Matts would do that to disrespect their guest’s opinons I think it would have been better served to have them to at least watch one film from each eras of Bond and talk about the women in that. I don’t know if they would have been willing to invest that time but at least this could have been a stand-alone episode and we could have had a discussion of Goldfinger as a film. I enjoy the podcast and now on to Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace! Kris b says: December 26, 2013 at 11:16 pm I just re-listened to this one after getting the bond box set. I can’t believe I sat through this a second time. It’s ironic that they refuse to talk about anything but overly feminist subject but do it in an a way that, if they were men, would be considered incredibly rude and demoralizing. And they also force Matt and Matt to talk about incredibly girly things. C’mon, ladies. Can’t you like anything other than girly drinks and Pinterest just because your girls? I find that incredibly belittling to women. Next time you come on someone’s podcast try to avoid crapping all over them for an hour and a half. It’s just plain rude no matter your gender. emma says: December 21, 2013 at 10:44 pm What a.horrible way for me to discover your podcast. What moronic and ill informed female guests. How could any Bond fans sit through listening to these idiots? I hope none of your other podcasts feature guests who don’t know or appreciate Bond. Why didn’t you have a flirt fest with these idiots over a Roger Moore outing instead of Goldfinger?Shoul I even attempt to listen to another podcast episode? What a disappointment. Arie Regan says: December 18, 2013 at 2:38 pm You had me at “… slow bone to China.” I love you both as much as is possible without being creepily inappropriate or outlandishly hyperbolic. andyuk says: December 18, 2013 at 10:38 am I love this podcast, it’s awesome. but this episode, wow, what awful awful guests, i felt so sorry for matt and matt having to put up with these two awful human beings. Vince says: December 13, 2013 at 10:35 pm Amazing episode, and fantastic guests you guys! It made me sad that, in a future episode (I’m listening to them out-of-order), you guys mentioned some of the negativity some listeners threw their way – shameful. They were charming guests, and besides getting off-topic occasionally (something all episodes of all podcasts do), they were pretty insightful. Not like any of the misogyny was layered deep down into this movie, but it was glad to talk about it and get this conversation going regardless. And you couldn’t pick more charming, entertaining guests to do it I’d love it if you got them back for a modern Bond movie discussion somehow. Alie & Georgia really seem like awesome & fun additions to this thing. Great episode, another dusty old movie though 😛 As a Bond fan from the 90’s, I am absolutely afraid to check these older ones out. Despite many opportunities to do so, thanks to myriad marathons on SyFy or BBC America or whatever. I DO feel a lot better about defending Daniel Craig as the best Bond now, though 😀 “Man Talk” — “Spank us out!” lol. Delirious Tyberius says: December 10, 2013 at 10:48 pm This episode is fucking amazing Nate2764 says: December 7, 2013 at 10:00 pm What can be said that hasn’t been already? I certainly won’t stoop to senseless name-calling. In fact, I avoid using the term “feminazi” due to its origin. But it should be stated that I’ve encountered this mindset quite a bit recently and I find it to be insulting and demoralizing. One could liken that to how a woman may feel seeing another being aggressively seduced or playfully swatted, but is that behavior really that criminal? I’ve been on the receiving end of a playful rear slapping in a public setting and I wasn’t left emotionally scarred over it. Putting the subject matter aside, it’s even more bothersome that these two guests seemed to have made up their mind from the beginning, all the way to going as far to criticize the use of a villainous as a human shield. There was no perspective, especially on a historical level, and no recognition of tongue-in-cheek whatsoever. I apologize to the Matts for using this forum to criticize people they consider friends but I simply found their points to be biased, legitimately sexist, and all-around useless. Jim says: December 5, 2013 at 7:05 pm So I’m here via the AV Club and consider myself a huge Bond fan. This episode specifically was referenced in a thread and I decided to check it out due to curiosity about its controversy. And I must admit, it was a chore to sit through. How would this be any different than Georgia and Alie having an alcohol themed podcast with guests who reveal themselves to be teetotallers? So much of this was arbitrary, hypocritical snark. Odd. Will listen to a few more and see what other guests bring to table.